Growing a Language [pdf] (1998)

(langev.com)

44 points | by ColinWright 4 days ago

3 comments

  • ColinWright 4 days ago
    This is the PDF of the talk given here:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ahvzDzKdB0

    It's Guy Steele[0]'s keynote at the 1998 ACM[1] OOPSLA[2] conference.

    [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guy_L._Steele_Jr.

    [1] Association for Computing Machinery

    [2] The 13th annual ACM SIGPLAN[3] Conference on Object-Oriented Programming Systems, Languages, and Applications.

    [3] SIGPLAN is the Association for Computing Machinery's Special Interest Group (SIG) on programming languages.

    • kreetx 22 hours ago
      This is one of the talks I watch over and over - though it has computer science value then its entertainment value is much much higher still.
    • gjvc 20 hours ago
      The OOPSLA 1997 keynote was a banger as well. That was truly an exciting time.
  • senkora 21 hours ago
    > An operator can be overloaded in C plus plus, but right now operators in the Java pro- gramming language can not be overloaded by the programmer, though names of methods may be overloaded. I would like to change that

    It’s a shame that he lost this battle. Operator overloading really does make it a lot nicer to design certain kinds of libraries.

    • chubot 20 hours ago
      FWIW another thing that Guy Steele advocated was value types, which as I understand it is ongoing work:

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Valhalla_(Java_languag...

      https://openjdk.org/projects/valhalla/

      I have said in the past, and will say now, that I think it would be a good thing for the Java programming language to add generic types and to let the user define overloaded operators.

      He did get the generic types though, I think that was well over a decade ago now

      • steveklabnik 18 hours ago
        > I think that was well over a decade ago now

        This was in Java 5, in 2004. So two decades!

      • roetlich 19 hours ago
        Or you could use C# and get all of those features.
    • owlstuffing 9 hours ago
      Agree 1000%

      There’s a Java compiler plugin[1] that muscles in operator overloading pretty comprehensively, and works with all LTS JDKs.

      1. https://github.com/manifold-systems/manifold/tree/master/man...

    • swyx 19 hours ago
      i mean okay but also it makes it impossible to have an open source ecosystem with shared libraries because suddenly things dont mean the same thing in one system vs another. i was interviewing at Jane St and realized their OCaml completely doesnt work with the rest of the world - and its fine if you're Jane St i guess but that really sucks for the "health" of a language ecosystem.
      • Someone 19 hours ago
        Why would

          a + b
        
        suffer more from this than

          plus(a,b)
        
        ? In both cases, libraries will only clash if both define a function with the same name taking an A and a B. The only difference is that it is called + in the former case, and plus in the latter.